USB Powered Speakers

[Programmer In Training]

I have acquired a pair of Compaq USB /powered/ speakers. On my parents
XP machine they don't seem to cause any problems, but when I hook it up
to listen on my FreeBSD box I have absolutely nothing but problems with
the speakers (even when turned off but still plugged in) interrupting
the normal operation of my keyboard (basically it seems that power is
cut to my keyboard at random). I have a beefy power supply (650W) so I
really shouldn't be having any power distribution issues.

I've tried the speakers in both the on-board USB ports and the USB
expansion card (PCI) with the same results.

Any ideas?

[Programmer In Training]

On 04/08/10 21:34, Antonio Olivares wrote:
<snip>

Is your keyboard a usb keyboard?

Sorry, yes.

Could be a permissions problem?

I don't know what could be the problem. I have a USB mouse, keyboard,
and web cam all plugged into the same USB PCI card and I've not had any
problems until I plugged in the speakers.

see 4.3.8. USB ports on FreeBSD
http://www.gphoto.org/doc/manual/permissions-usb.html
Hope this helps in some way.

It's given me a place to look, at least, though it's a lot of technical
information that is hurting my eyes just to look at, hehe. (:

[Programmer In Training]

Now that I think about it and have more context as to how things are
working. lshal output could be useful here as well.

Can you provide some dmesg output please?

<snip>

http://www.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us/stuff/dmesg.out (64KB)
http://www.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us/stuff/lshal.out (80KB)

I couldn't find nothing in it referring to the speakers. Again, they are
only attached for power purposes (I didn't buy the speakers, they came
with a computer I bought from a friend). I don't see why they'd have any
sort of id attached to them.

Full info from the back of the speakers:

FLC Presario Speaker System

Input power: DC 5V 500mA

Also, that link for gphoto on FreeBSD 8 didn't have anything useful to
my situation. It dealt exclusively with digital cameras. I didn't see
anything that would apply to my situation, thanks for the link though as
I do have a digicam I eventually want to be able to pull pictures off of
from my computer instead of my parents.

[p***@pluto.rain.com]

... they are only attached for power purposes ...
Input power: DC 5V 500mA

Any chance these speakers need a USB 2.0 port, and all the ports
on your FreeBSD box are 1.x? I don't remember the USB power spec
offhand, but 2.5W may exceed what a USB 1.x port can supply --
a limit that applies regardless of the system's overall power
provisioning.

[Warren Block]

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

... they are only attached for power purposes ...
Input power: DC 5V 500mA

Any chance these speakers need a USB 2.0 port, and all the ports
on your FreeBSD box are 1.x? I don't remember the USB power spec
offhand, but 2.5W may exceed what a USB 1.x port can supply --
a limit that applies regardless of the system's overall power
provisioning.

500 mA is 5 unit loads for USB 2.0, or powered hub territory. The
device has to request that high power mode, and the system can say no
and disable the port. That should show in /var/log/messages.

-Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA

[Programmer In Training]

Post by Warren Block

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

... they are only attached for power purposes ...
Input power: DC 5V 500mA

Any chance these speakers need a USB 2.0 port, and all the ports
on your FreeBSD box are 1.x? I don't remember the USB power spec
offhand, but 2.5W may exceed what a USB 1.x port can supply --
a limit that applies regardless of the system's overall power
provisioning.

500 mA is 5 unit loads for USB 2.0, or powered hub territory. The
device has to request that high power mode, and the system can say no
and disable the port. That should show in /var/log/messages.

<snip>

The following messages so far haven't shown up today.

Apr 8 22:30:01 heaven root: Unknown USB device: vendor 0x046e product
0x5542 bus uhub4
Apr 8 22:30:01 heaven kernel: uhid0: <vendor 0x046e product 0x5542,
class 0/0, rev 1.10/1.10, addr 3> on usbus4
Apr 8 22:30:01 heaven kernel: uhub_explore:611: illegal enable change,
port 3
Apr 8 22:30:15 heaven kernel: ugen4.3: <vendor 0x046e> at usbus4
(disconnected)
Apr 8 22:30:15 heaven kernel: ukbd0: at uhub4, port 3, addr 3
(disconnected)
Apr 8 22:30:15 heaven kernel: uhid0: at uhub4, port 3, addr 3
(disconnected)
Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1586: set address 3
failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, ignored)
Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1624: getting device
descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR!

[Programmer In Training]

"Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1624: getting device
descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR!"
exactly! That is what is causing the issues. From what I can see, it
is like it was explained before. The OS has chosen to play nice and
request that the speakers are disabled.
The power requirements will not affect the system until the speakers
are producing sound. In other words, the system will only draw UP to
the power input rating while in operation. At idle, I'd wager they may
only use 1/10 of its power rating for the idle ICs and a power LED.

<snip>

Only it's not the speakers that have their operation interrupted, JUST
the keyboard (not even the mouse is affected).

[Warren Block]

Post by Programmer In Training

"Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1624: getting device
descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR!"
exactly! That is what is causing the issues. From what I can see, it
is like it was explained before. The OS has chosen to play nice and
request that the speakers are disabled.
The power requirements will not affect the system until the speakers
are producing sound. In other words, the system will only draw UP to
the power input rating while in operation. At idle, I'd wager they may
only use 1/10 of its power rating for the idle ICs and a power LED.

Just to add:

When you plug in a USB device, it is a "low power" device (single unit
load, 100 mA) by default.

If that device wants to draw more power, it has to request high power (5
unit loads) from the hub. The hub can provide that power, or shut down
the port.

Post by Programmer In Training
Only it's not the speakers that have their operation interrupted, JUST
the keyboard (not even the mouse is affected).

Guesses:

Total power budget (but FIFO?).
Speaker/keyboard USB ports are on the same internal hub.
High-power OLED keyboard (my eyes!).
Speakers labelled 500 mA but really only a low-power USB device.

-Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA

[Programmer In Training]

Post by Warren Block

Post by Programmer In Training

"Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1624: getting device
descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR!"
exactly! That is what is causing the issues. From what I can see, it
is like it was explained before. The OS has chosen to play nice and
request that the speakers are disabled.
The power requirements will not affect the system until the speakers
are producing sound. In other words, the system will only draw UP to
the power input rating while in operation. At idle, I'd wager they may
only use 1/10 of its power rating for the idle ICs and a power LED.

When you plug in a USB device, it is a "low power" device (single unit
load, 100 mA) by default.
If that device wants to draw more power, it has to request high power (5
unit loads) from the hub. The hub can provide that power, or shut down
the port.

I never knew that about USB ports.

Post by Warren Block

Post by Programmer In Training
Only it's not the speakers that have their operation interrupted, JUST
the keyboard (not even the mouse is affected).

Total power budget (but FIFO?).

I don't get that. Do you mean total power allocated to USB?

Post by Warren Block
Speaker/keyboard USB ports are on the same internal hub.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I've put the speakers on the internal,
builtin USB ports (1.x) and they work fine except keyboard starts
flaking out. I put them on the USB expansion card (which mouse and
keyboard are on because they were starting to flake out on the builtins)
with the same exact behavior.

Post by Warren Block
High-power OLED keyboard (my eyes!).

Keyboard label (if it is to be believed) is +5V 100mA. It's just a
standard keyboard with some extra multimedia keys that aren't active (a
pity, too).

Post by Warren Block
Speakers labelled 500 mA but really only a low-power USB device.

Than they shouldn't be messing with the keyboard, right?

It usually takes about an hour or so for the keyboard to settle down to
a usable state (until then, I'm doing a lot of mousing as the keyboard
is near useless).

I really don't know where to look for this. I've never even heard of USB
powered speakers until I got these (no, I don't pay much attention to
what's available unless I have a great need for it). I'm thinking I'm
just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand new pair of
wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it (they put out decent
sound).

[Chris Whitehouse]

Post by Programmer In Training
I really don't know where to look for this. I've never even heard of USB
powered speakers until I got these (no, I don't pay much attention to
what's available unless I have a great need for it). I'm thinking I'm
just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand new pair of
wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it (they put out decent
sound).

Unless you insist on an operating system solution what you are really
after is a 5 volt supply. What about buying a mains USB charger of the
right capacity, or if you are handy with bits of wire have a look
through all those old power supplies for a 5 volt one? Or even use the 5
volt supply from inside your computer (if it is a desktop not laptop)

Chris

[Programmer In Training]

On 04/09/10 18:31, Chris Whitehouse wrote:
<snip>

Post by Chris Whitehouse
Unless you insist on an operating system solution what you are really
after is a 5 volt supply. What about buying a mains USB charger of the
right capacity, or if you are handy with bits of wire have a look

I wouldn't know where to look for one.

Post by Chris Whitehouse
through all those old power supplies for a 5 volt one? Or even use the 5
volt supply from inside your computer (if it is a desktop not laptop)
Chris

It is a desktop. There is a 5V supply in there?!

[mikel king]

Post by Programmer In Training
<snip>

Post by Chris Whitehouse
Unless you insist on an operating system solution what you are really
after is a 5 volt supply. What about buying a mains USB charger of the
right capacity, or if you are handy with bits of wire have a look

I wouldn't know where to look for one.

Post by Chris Whitehouse
through all those old power supplies for a 5 volt one? Or even use the 5
volt supply from inside your computer (if it is a desktop not laptop)
Chris

It is a desktop. There is a 5V supply in there?!
--
Yours In Christ,

Out of curiosity, have you tried an active USB 2.0 HUB to buffer the
speakers from the computer's USB ports? Or even a AC to USB adapter?


Regards,
Mikel King
CEO, Olivent Technologies
Senior Editor, BSD News Network
Columnist, BSD Magazine
skype:mikel.king
http://olivent.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelking
http://twitter.com/mikelking

[Programmer In Training]

On 04/09/10 19:58, mikel king wrote:
<snip>

Post by mikel king
Out of curiosity, have you tried an active USB 2.0 HUB to buffer the
speakers from the computer's USB ports? Or even a AC to USB adapter?

<snip>

I don't have one of either of those items. I only have a passive 2.0 HUB
(at least I think it's 2.0). Either way, looks as if there is a trip to
the store and/or the website for my mobo manufacturer and a trip into
the shed to find my EET books.

[Chris Whitehouse]

Post by Programmer In Training
<snip>

Post by Chris Whitehouse
Unless you insist on an operating system solution what you are really
after is a 5 volt supply. What about buying a mains USB charger of the
right capacity, or if you are handy with bits of wire have a look

I wouldn't know where to look for one.

Google mains USB charger :)

Post by Programmer In Training

Post by Chris Whitehouse
through all those old power supplies for a 5 volt one?

Most households build up a store of old power supplies from defunct or
lost equipment.

Or even use the 5

Post by Programmer In Training

Post by Chris Whitehouse
volt supply from inside your computer (if it is a desktop not laptop)
Chris

It is a desktop. There is a 5V supply in there?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_%28computer%29#Connectors

Only go this way if you know what you are doing...

Chris

[p***@pluto.rain.com]

I'm thinking I'm just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand
new pair of wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it ...

If "speakers on USB 2.0 card, all else on 1.x builtins" doesn't
work, you might want to try a power adapter that has a USB host
connector. (I've seen such at Fry's, intended for devices like
iPods that were designed to recharge their internal batteries
from a USB port.) This would effectively convert your current
set to wall-powered, which might be less costly than a new set.

WRT the suggestion to hack something together, I wouldn't suggest
attempting it unless you're quite sure of what would be involved.
It wouldn't be exactly difficult, but getting something backwards
-- or connecting to the +12 instead of the +5 supply -- would at
least let all the magic blue smoke out of the speakers :)

[Programmer In Training]

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

I'm thinking I'm just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand
new pair of wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it ...

If "speakers on USB 2.0 card, all else on 1.x builtins" doesn't

What I don't get is that the speakers work no matter what I hook it up
to. 1.x builtins (they were recognized as 1.x by Windows, I assume they
still are seeing as how they cannot be upgraded) or 2.0 card. And no
matter what I hook up the speakers too, it messes with the keyboard,
though I had not tried to put the keyboard and mouse back on the 1.x
builtins (don't really need 2.0 speed for such devices) as they were
starting to act up on them.

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com
work, you might want to try a power adapter that has a USB host
connector. (I've seen such at Fry's, intended for devices like
iPods that were designed to recharge their internal batteries
from a USB port.) This would effectively convert your current
set to wall-powered, which might be less costly than a new set.

Perhaps, but I've been wanting a new set for a while now. The set I had
before this one was old when I got them. Last new set I had was from
Creative. Two full range satellites with a 6 1/2" omni-directional
sub-woofer for about $80; unfortunately that was ages ago. I miss them
(the satellite's died before the sub).

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com
WRT the suggestion to hack something together, I wouldn't suggest
attempting it unless you're quite sure of what would be involved.

I'm fairly certain solder (rosin-core as acid-core would corrode the
contacts), electrical tape and a few prayers that I avoid the below
stated consequences (seriously, there is a +5 and +12 on my motherboard?
man I am seriously under-utilizing this thing).

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com
It wouldn't be exactly difficult, but getting something backwards
-- or connecting to the +12 instead of the +5 supply -- would at
least let all the magic blue smoke out of the speakers :)

[Programmer In Training]

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

I'm thinking I'm just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand
new pair of wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it ...

If "speakers on USB 2.0 card, all else on 1.x builtins" doesn't

<snip>

Despite the steadily degrading nature of the builtins, they are working
for the keyboard with speakers on the card and so far (aside from some
initial issues) they seem to be working just fine. For now. I'm still
getting a new pair of speakers. Now I'm not so keen on getting some of
those USB gadgets from ThinkGeek. ):

[Chris Whitehouse]

Post by Programmer In Training

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

I'm thinking I'm just going to wait until Tuesday and get a brand
new pair of wall-powered speakers. This hassle is NOT worth it ...

If "speakers on USB 2.0 card, all else on 1.x builtins" doesn't

<snip>
Despite the steadily degrading nature of the builtins, they are working
for the keyboard with speakers on the card and so far (aside from some
initial issues) they seem to be working just fine. For now. I'm still
getting a new pair of speakers. Now I'm not so keen on getting some of

It's probably too late to suggest it now but it did occur to me a very
cheap and easy way to get around the original problem might be to
replace the keyboard with a PS/2 keyboard :P (if your computer has a
PS/2 port).

Chris

[Programmer In Training]

On 04/11/10 05:06, Chris Whitehouse wrote:
<snip>

Post by Chris Whitehouse
It's probably too late to suggest it now but it did occur to me a very
cheap and easy way to get around the original problem might be to
replace the keyboard with a PS/2 keyboard :P (if your computer has a
PS/2 port).

PS/2 ports do not work at all, otherwise I wouldn't bother with USB.

Also, problem resurfaced after about 2 hours of listening to music. I
wound up having to shut down PC all night because no matter what I did,
keyboard would go wonky on me.

[Nikolaj Thygesen]

Post by Programmer In Training

"Apr 8 22:30:16 heaven kernel: usb_alloc_device:1624: getting device
descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR!"
exactly! That is what is causing the issues. From what I can see, it
is like it was explained before. The OS has chosen to play nice and
request that the speakers are disabled.
The power requirements will not affect the system until the speakers
are producing sound. In other words, the system will only draw UP to
the power input rating while in operation. At idle, I'd wager they may
only use 1/10 of its power rating for the idle ICs and a power LED.

<snip>
Only it's not the speakers that have their operation interrupted, JUST
the keyboard (not even the mouse is affected).

Hi,

I don't know if my issue is related to the one debated in this
thread, but I just recently bought myself a pair of externally (regular
power supply; no USB power) powered speakers, that plug into the sound
card as usual, but when the speakers are powered up or down, my USB
mouse disappears for a few seconds! It happens every time, and the mouse
has its resoution reset. It's no big deal to me, but I'm a bit puzzled
as to how the simple sound card connection could reset a USB connection.
I'm not trying to hijack this thread, just thought the issues might
be related.


br - N :o)

[Programmer In Training]

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com

... they are only attached for power purposes ...
Input power: DC 5V 500mA

Any chance these speakers need a USB 2.0 port, and all the ports

The expansion card is 2.0

Post by p***@pluto.rain.com
on your FreeBSD box are 1.x? I don't remember the USB power spec
offhand, but 2.5W may exceed what a USB 1.x port can supply --
a limit that applies regardless of the system's overall power
provisioning.

That would explain why the sound was so small on my parents computer.
All they have is 1.x

[Antonio Olivares]

Post by Programmer In Training
I have acquired a pair of Compaq USB /powered/ speakers. On my parents
XP machine they don't seem to cause any problems, but when I hook it up
to listen on my FreeBSD box I have absolutely nothing but problems with
the speakers (even when turned off but still plugged in) interrupting
the normal operation of my keyboard (basically it seems that power is
cut to my keyboard at random). I have a beefy power supply (650W) so I
really shouldn't be having any power distribution issues.
I've tried the speakers in both the on-board USB ports and the USB
expansion card (PCI) with the same results.
Any ideas?
--
Yours In Christ,
PIT
Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want.
Original content copyright under the OWL http://owl.apotheon.org
Please do not CC me. If I'm posting to a list it is because I am subscribed.

Is your keyboard a usb keyboard?

Could be a permissions problem?

see 4.3.8. USB ports on FreeBSD

http://www.gphoto.org/doc/manual/permissions-usb.html

Hope this helps in some way.

Regards,

Antonio

[Fbsd1]

Post by Programmer In Training
I have acquired a pair of Compaq USB /powered/ speakers. On my parents
XP machine they don't seem to cause any problems, but when I hook it up
to listen on my FreeBSD box I have absolutely nothing but problems with
the speakers (even when turned off but still plugged in) interrupting
the normal operation of my keyboard (basically it seems that power is
cut to my keyboard at random). I have a beefy power supply (650W) so I
really shouldn't be having any power distribution issues.
I've tried the speakers in both the on-board USB ports and the USB
expansion card (PCI) with the same results.
Any ideas?

You really need to explain in detail the problem.
Without these new speakers plugged in does wall powered speakers work?

[Programmer In Training]

Post by Fbsd1

Post by Programmer In Training
I have acquired a pair of Compaq USB /powered/ speakers. On my parents
XP machine they don't seem to cause any problems, but when I hook it up
to listen on my FreeBSD box I have absolutely nothing but problems with
the speakers (even when turned off but still plugged in) interrupting
the normal operation of my keyboard (basically it seems that power is
cut to my keyboard at random). I have a beefy power supply (650W) so I
really shouldn't be having any power distribution issues.
I've tried the speakers in both the on-board USB ports and the USB
expansion card (PCI) with the same results.
Any ideas?

You really need to explain in detail the problem.

That's as much detail, except for the question below, that I have.

Post by Fbsd1
Without these new speakers plugged in does wall powered speakers work?

Yeah, normal wall speakers work, but I gave those to my mom since these
speakers, even at full blast, only put out a tiny sound on her computer
(normal volume on mine).

[Programmer In Training]

I believe a call to iostat (there is something similar) you should see
a large amount of interrupts to your USB keyboard driver, at least
that is my assumption.

That is my assumption, too.

Unfortunately, I do not have USB powered speakers for me to test with.
That said, the way FreeBSD does sound is similar to Linux and even
Windows... though as you will see Windows does hacky stuff to make
poorly designed hardware work.

<snip>

The sound goes through the sound card, just the power plug is a USB
cable and not an adapter.